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09 Feb ' 15:41
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Was it Clinton's fault also? He believed that Saddam had WMDs. Actually the war should have been about PREVENTING him getting them (which it did) - but they (Western governments) thought Saddam had ALREADY built up his chemical weapons stockpile. A lot of soldiers wasted a lot of time doing training on how to put noddy suits (and so on) when the cry of "gas, gas, gas" was shouted at them. Not fun wearing anti chemical and biological warfare gear in a blazing hot desert. And what about Mr Blair - he was in favour of the invasion of Iraq before Bush was. That is why I had trouble not laughing at all the "Blair is the poodle of the Americans" stuff in Britain - as, in reality, Blair came to the conclusion of "invade" FIRST. He had visions of happy Iraqis chanting "TONY, TONY, TONY"..... and setting up a wonderful democracy with women's rights and Gay rights and (on and on). He actually had the same vision for Afghanistan - he even sent over various advisers (in the various P.C. "rights") from local British councils, to Afghanistan. I do not know what happened to these these people.
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09 Feb ' 09:21
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The Republic of HillandThe Pacific
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If you believe Bush lied
O.o Who said anything about Bush lying? I said it was his fault for the crummy intel, not that he actively lied. - 2 hours ago:
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09 Feb ' 03:32
The Largest Arms Manufacturing Sector in Capitalist Paradise
5th in the world for Largest Arms Manufacturing Sector.
The Allied Corporate Empire of Northern BorlandCapitalizt “A Good Place to Raise Your Business” 
The Dominion of The CaptainCorporate Police State “A friendly place for the upper class” 
The Three Holy Kingdoms of New MesopelagiaCompulsory Consumerist State “Greed Is Eternal” 
The Free Secular Federation of Nation of Quebec“In Freedom We Trust” The Perpendicular Parallels of Perpendiculous Capitalizt “Phase 1 Collect Underpants, Phase 2 ?, Phase 3 Profit!” The Clampdown of Kaputer Capitalist Paradise “Pop Tarts for all” 
The American Protectorate of CanterburieInoffensive Centrist Democracy “Peace Through Strength” 
The Confederacy of AjoriaCapitalist Paradise “We may be stupid, but we have power!” 
The Armed Libertariana of GydoniaCapitalist Paradise “Buy! Sell! Bye!” 29
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08 Feb ' 21:40
(elected 190 days ago)
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08 Feb ' 15:40
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I was going to let your ignorance and Bush Derangement Syndrome stand on your previous statements. However, since it is obvious that you are not finished demonstrating the depths of both, let me show you where you are wrong. Using your own words: The Free Republic of Afforess: I'm afraid you can't give Bush a pass for poor intelligence when Dick Cheney and Colin Powell were amongst those he appointed or campaigned with, and no small part of the cause of misinformation. If you choose to live in a bubble, it's still your fault for the ignorance. Would you be good enough to explain how having Vice President Cheney and/or Secretary Colin Powell on board completely set aside the facts that I gave you in my "rant?" (Your definition of rant is questionable as well.) When you are finished with that, by the power vested in me as Ambassador from Xyanth, I make you President of the United States (May the Fates forbid...) and set the clock back to 2002. You are now the Top Dog, the Big Chilingo, Holder of the Big Stick, the Place Where the Buck Stops, the Decider... You know, the Commander in Chief? Over the last few weeks the intelligence outlined in the above "rant" has been coming in. All of it is supported by other intelligence assets. Saddam's public statements about hitting back at "The Great Satan" and hints that "Allah's wrath will be raining down death on the infidels" are getting louder and more frequent. Then you get the word we found what appear to be biological weapons labs set up and running in two remote dessert locations. However, those two facilities are not large enough to account for all the equipment and material we know he bought to date. So, enlighten us. Bless us with your infinite wisdom. What would you do? Stunning What is genuinely stunning is that people like The Free Republic of Afforess, even with facts in hand, continue to argue discredited positions. There are times I think we will have to loose a city or two before the majority of them come around to reality. And even then I strongly suspect that The Free Republic of Afforess will still find a way to say we are wrong. Classic Bush Derangement Syndrome at its finest.
So how about that football game? I love a game that isn't decided until clock runs out.
What would I do, I would use the same play book they have developed for Iran. Buildup our forces in Kuwait as a buffer in case of a response from the country we will strike at. Then you identify the targets that need to be taken out, and you use air strikes. There was no need to for a large invasion.
I love a game where Boston fans are sent home crying. Eli and the Giants are just in Brady's head, its that simple. Everyone talks about the dropped pass by Welker, including Brady's whiny super model wife, but the fact is while it was a catchable ball, it was a poorly thrown ball. Welker was wide open and Brady just threw a bad pass. There was complete blown coverage and the play should have been an easy TD with a good throw, instead it was a high throw that would have required Welker to make a nice leaping grab,which he probably should have made, but still, just as much blame belongs on Brady. My Giants D did a hell of a job putting pressure on Brady and shutting him down completely aside from the drive before and right after half time. Justin Tuck had one hell of a game. He forced a saftey in the opening drive and after his sacks in the 3rd quarter Brady looked like a deer in the head lights the rest of the game. Most importantly Eli showed why he is an elite QB in this league. He put in another spotless effort, ending in another amazing clutch 4th quarter drive. Throughout the playoffs Eli far out performed all other QBs in the league. The most telling statistic is that in a very pass happy Giants offense, Eli through just 1 interception the whole playoffs, including none in the last 2 games in which he threw the ball over 100 times. Eli Manning has officially shut up all of his critics. Go G-MEN!
Post self-deleted by Panageadom.
"...continue to argue discredited positions..." And here I thought only the Iraqis were prone to conservative religiously-maintained orthodoxy!
@ Afforess Point is, Bush had the same intel as the Clinton admin, from the Clinton admin. If you believe Bush lied, you have to believe that mot of the democrat administration lied also.
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08 Feb ' 05:18
The Most Rebellious Youth in Capitalist Paradise
World Census observers counted the number of times their car stereo was stolen from outside fast food stores to determine which nations have relatively high levels of youth-related crime.
1,136th in the world for Most Rebellious Youth.
The Infection of EdgemasterCompulsory Consumerist State “KICK LOGIC OUT AND DO THE IMPOSSIBLE!!” 
The Jingoistic States of Uxorem meamAnarchy “Quid quid latine dictum sit, altum viditur” 
The Carlton Blues of Offensive Language
Anarchy “Offensive Language” 
The Queendom of FiarindomAnarchy “Foo Bar” 
The State of Takasia
“In Sol We Trust” The Freedom-Seeking Republic of Panageadom Corporate Bordello “Citizens of Panageadom are men of wealth and taste” The Free Republic of Afforess
Civil Rights Lovefest “A light in darkness, when all other lights go out...” 
The United Federation of Plisskenstan
Civil Rights Lovefest “Pecunia non olet” 
The Libertarian Pirate Haven of Pacitan
Anarchy “May we live long and die out” 
The Rogue Nation of SangrogAnarchy “Live life to the fullest” - 6 hours ago: The United States of President Marchio ceased to exist.
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The 9 Billion SOB's of FASTERCAT: There are hundreds of these.
What is your point?
The Democratic Republic of Xyanth: Heh... Not hardly.
Stunning. -
08 Feb ' 00:33
(elected 189 days ago)
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Heh... Not hardly.
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998 "If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998 "Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." --Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998 There are hundreds of these. -
07 Feb ' 19:36
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like what? if something's necessary lawmakers should write new legislation specifically focusing on THAT amendment/law. i guess im just super-disgruntled/in a dimension of pissed off i've never been in b4 in my life...
I don't believe that the Iraq war was an evil plot of the Bush administration. I believe it was an extreme failure of the US Government and our allies over the intelligence data they had received.
it is pleasant to see that you are still around. I hope that it remains so.The Democratic Republic of Xyanth: It is good to know that The Free Republic of Afforess has access all the intelligence President Bush had at that time. I'm certain that after evaluation every smidgen of data from every asset at the disposal of the US intelligence machine, The Free Republic of Afforess is far wiser and much more qualified to decide what should have been done.
Oh wait, The Free Republic of Afforess didn't have access to all those things. In fact none of us will see those things for the next 30 or 40 years. Without all the information, how can The Free Republic of Afforess be so sure of his position? Must be one of those dogma things. You seem to have ignored my statement, and gone straight for my throat instead. Too bad, because you missed. Let's look at what I said:
The Free Republic of Afforess: I'm afraid you can't give Bush a pass for poor intelligence when Dick Cheney and Colin Powell were amongst those he appointed or campaigned with, and no small part of the cause of misinformation. If you choose to live in a bubble, it's still your fault for the ignorance.
I didn't blame Bush for making his decision based on the available evidence. Based on the available evidence at the time, Bush made a logical decision. Rather, I blamed Bush for the decisions that led to the poor intelligence. ;)
This minor detail unravels your whole rant. Too bad, too. I suggest you contact your institution of education and demand a formal refund - clearly they were not up to par. -
07 Feb ' 15:17
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To The Free Republic of Afforess, The disturbing thing here is your completely unrealistic view of the world in 2002. Let us address this in the order of you comments. Intelligence: It is good to know that The Free Republic of Afforess has access all the intelligence President Bush had at that time. I'm certain that after evaluation every smidgen of data from every asset at the disposal of the US intelligence machine, The Free Republic of Afforess is far wiser and much more qualified to decide what should have been done. Oh wait, The Free Republic of Afforess didn't have access to all those things. In fact none of us will see those things for the next 30 or 40 years. Without all the information, how can The Free Republic of Afforess be so sure of his position? Must be one of those dogma things. Here are the public facts as put together over the last nine years: - Saddam wanted to attack us after we kicked him out of Kuwait. Saddam never got over that. That is called motive. - Iraq set up semi-truck mounted installations in the desert. - Satellite and reconnaissance aircraft photographed them. Infrared photography showed the facilities were powered up and suggested that incubators were in use. - Human and intercept intelligence gave every indication that Saddam and Co were tinkering with some kind of re-infecting agent.[1] - Intercepts clearly discussed biological weapons being manufactured in the country. - Logistic intelligence tracked Iraqi purchases of equipment and supplies for growing large quantities of biological agents. That same intelligence caught the Iraqi's trying to by nuclear material on the black market from former Soviet block nations and centrifuges from Germany. September 11th's effect on weighing intelligence: It would appear The Free Republic of Afforess either cannot see or is unwilling to see the effect of a recent and highly successful attack on how new intelligence is weighed and acted on. That demonstrates a remarkable, and possibly willful, ignorance the concept of learning from past failures. It also shows almost no knowledge what so ever of human nature. Again, that dogma thing must be a factor. As for "Do you believe our allies tell us the truth?": Clearly The Free Republic of Afforess is unable or unwilling to comprehend the facts as presented. Let me put this in terms you can understand: We did not take his word for anything. This is information we gathered on our own. The fact is that intelligence is an inexact art. Sometimes the magic works. Sometimes not so much. The not so much part really comes in to play if the other side is purposely feeding misinformation to its enemies. In this case according to captured and expatriated Iraqi's who spoke on the matter, the entire thing was a hoax designed, depending on who you want to believe, to intimidate Iran, the United States or both. Iraqi oil exports: The Free Republic of Afforess once again demonstrates an almost unbelievable lack of knowledge of history, economics and who was selling what to who. If he were to check he would have found that the US was not doing any business with Iraq at that time. In fact Iraq was on the official no trade list for all commerce excepting relief supplies. Hope this clears a few things up for The Free Republic of Afforess. But frankly, I doubt that it will. Clearly The Free Republic of Afforess suffers from a text book case of Bush Derangement Syndrome. ----------------------------------------------------------------- [1] A re-infecting agent is something you can get from someone that already has it. An attack on the United States with a re-infecting agent like weaponized smallpox would make Sept. 11th look like a minor traffic accident.
"Intelligence:
It is good to know that The Free Republic of Afforess has access all the intelligence President Bush had at that time. I'm certain that after evaluation every smidgen of data from every asset at the disposal of the US intelligence machine, The Free Republic of Afforess is far wiser and much more qualified to decide what should have been done.
Oh wait, The Free Republic of Afforess didn't have access to all those things. In fact none of us will see those things for the next 30 or 40 years. Without all the information, how can The Free Republic of Afforess be so sure of his position? Must be one of those dogma things."
This sword swings both ways, Xyanth... -
07 Feb ' 10:37
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right, political freedoms. I get them confused at times. it still doesn't make sense though as forcing politicians to leave underhanded/unrelated additions out of bills should RAISE political freedoms as it ensures they are unable to achieve their own secondary agenda that the people know nothing about thanks to the title of the bill and most of its content having NOTHING to do with the additions.
You're limiting what lawmakers can do. Yes, you're limiting unnecessary additions, but you're also limiting potentially necessary ones. Naturally, political freedom falls.
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